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very subtl difference

Postby gwladgarwr » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:19 am

Although I hear both long and short forms of the irregular verbs used often,and can interchange between the two with relatively little problems,but reading a book on grammer I come across the conditional short form, and wonder do other Welsh speakers have a problem in hearing the subtle difference between fe ddown ni (we will come) and fe ddown i (I would come).? Can't be sure if i have heard fe ddown i used in conversation and misunderstood it for fe ddown ni?
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Re: very subtl difference

Postby DaiTwp » Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:50 pm

Fe ddown i is short form for the conditional tense, I.e. As you suggest I would come. As you point out this sounds almost identical in speech as fe ddown ni. The context would give the meaning. There is another common version of 'I would come' used in the south 'fe ddelwn i' which is clearly different and so easier to pick up in speech.

Byddwn i'n dod, baswn i'n dod, down i, delwn i are all used to greater or lesser degrees to mean I would come, there are/can be subtle differences in their exact meanings but you can pretty much treat them as interchangable
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Re: very subtl difference

Postby Iestyn » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:02 pm

Yes, I'm with Dai Twp on this. In a real conversation - rather than an artificial language excercise - the context would almost always make it absolutely clear which of these was bsing used, so I wouldn';t worry about it too much.

And, yes, I would never ever use "fe ddown i" for this, but "delen i". Actually, I don't use down ni for the plural whatsit either, I would say "dewn ni"!

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Re: very subtl difference

Postby DaiTwp » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:24 pm

There are loads of variations on the short forms of the four irregular verbs (mynd, dod, cael and gwneud) which is one of the joys of learning a new language. I suppose these are four of the most commonly used verbs and so over time subject to the most change in the dialects of the different areas. I'd either pick one which matches that commonly used in your area or failing that just go with what feels the most comfortable and natural for you. And although there are plenty of variations you'll almost always understand from the context if someone comes out with one you haven't heard before.
mae pob dicÿn bach yn (h)elp, ys gwetws y dryw bach wrth bisho yn y môr

every little bit helps, as the wren said as he pissed in the sea
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Re: very subtl difference

Postby gwladgarwr » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:33 pm

Big thanks to both of you,its just that the more you learn and use a language the more it throws up questions, but thanks for explaining regarding the context.
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