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Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby Gruntius » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:40 pm

This thread is for mistakes you find in the production of the lessons, such as lack of time to reply, missing sentences, incorrect sentences, etc. A short post containing the course and lesson number, time of fault and brief description of the problem should be all that's needed.

Any questions concerning lesson content can be found here.
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby Aran » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:31 pm

Diolch yn fawr iawn...:seren:

This will be an enormous help, so diolch yn fawr in advance for all/any contributions...:D
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby hewrop » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:01 pm

I'm also standing by in eager anticipation.

Processing of recent tasks (since the latter part of last year, I guess) has been carried out by a team of volunteers including me who are "learning on the job". It's easy to make mistakes and difficult to be objective about your own output so, as Aran says, quality control from the users at large will be "of enormous help"

The good news is that with the fantastic development work that Jeff L has put into Spenny's original lesson editor, rectifying mistakes is now much easier.
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby Gruntius » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:24 pm

I regret not making notes during the first 14 lessons but am doing #15 now ...

19:27 - I was speaking with your sister yesterday.

Catrin puts an "eisiau" in there. "o'n i eisiau siarad efo dy chwaer ddoe."
Aran : "o'n i'n siarad efo dy chwaer ddoe."
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby hewrop » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:43 pm

Gruntius wrote:I regret not making notes during the first 14 lessons but am doing #15 now ...

19:27 - I was speaking with your sister yesterday.

Catrin puts an "eisiau" in there. "o'n i eisiau siarad efo dy chwaer ddoe."
Aran : "o'n i'n siarad efo dy chwaer ddoe."

This is one of mine.
Aran: I've just checked the script to see whether "o'n i eisiau siarad efo dy chwaer ddoe" occurs elsewhere but it doesn't. I could easily excise the "eisiau" but that would leave "o'n i siarad efo dy chwaer ddoe" which has a "'n" missing. Could this come in the class of slips designed to keep listeners awake? :smile:

Geraint: Diolch - keep 'em coming.
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby vgh50 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:11 pm

I have noted a few errors which might be lost in the previous thread. I will copy them here...
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby vgh50 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:26 pm

vgh50 wrote:Lesson 2

There's a small mistake at the end: At 40:49 the sentence -

But I'd better try to remember what I wanted to say.

Catrin gives the answer to the following sentence and says:

Dwi'n trio dysgu Cymraeg, ond dwi'n dal angen gwella.

Then Aran says in English:

I'm trying to learn Welsh, but I still need to improve.

Catrin doesn't say anything here - there's just a long gap and the Aran says it in Welsh.

After that though, it goes back to normal... :smile:


vgh50 wrote:lesson 3...a little sniff and a cough at about 20:28... :wink:


vgh50 wrote:
Dee wrote:There is one place where Catrin's response is missing but I wasn't quick enough to note down when it was. Perhaps if someone else is going through Lesson 5 they could keep an ear out for it.


It's at 24:37 - the sentence: Because I can't remember how to say anything else :geek:


vgh50 wrote:A small anomaly in lesson 11 on the 5 min mark: "He's going to start speaking"

Catrin: Mae o'n mynd i ddechrau dysgu siarad
Aran: Mae o'n mynd i ddechrau siarad


vgh50 wrote:I abandoned lesson 14 at the 26 min mark as it went a bit odd (which is something that a new learner would find very confusing) and have looked at it again now.

26:17 I know someone who said that he works with your brother

Catrin says the whole sentence in Welsh, but Aran misses out the first part (Dwi'n nabod rhywun...) which really threw me at the time... :-?

then the next sentence at...

26:40, there's a long sentence followed by the Welsh translation by Catrin, but there is no gap at all, it literally follows on. It was at this point that I gave up yesterday.

There is the same pattern again starting at...

29:52 The old man said that you speak Welsh very well.

Again, Catrin says the full sentence but Aran misses out the, "The old man said" part.

Then the sentence that follows at...

30:14 The old man in the pub said that you're doing very well

There is again no gap here between the English sentence and Catrin saying the Welsh.


These might have already been sorted. Anyway, I hope this helps... :D
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby hewrop » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:15 pm

Thanks for the feedback in this and other threads. Forgive me for the length of this post but I would very much value your opinion/guidance.

I have only, up to now, reviewed my own output but, since the aim of the volunteer activity over recent months is to relieve the administative burden on the “Fab 4” and other lesson generators, I shall undertake to look closely at all the feedback on this thread over the next week or so and liaise with the lesson producers and software developer to put right what we can.

I have a suggestion for the future, however, and would appreciate your thoughts.
I think we could introduce as part of the processing exercise a separate Quality Control stage which should minimise errors and actually save time in the long run.

Existing volunteers will be familiar with the Breeze “look and feel”. For the others let me say that it provides a means for the lesson generators to post their voice files and scripts to a “To Do” column. Volunteers may then assign themselves to the tasks and shift them to a “Doing” column and finally to a “Done column” when they are finished. There are also columns to cover essential reading, software development and trouble-shooting. Each individual task gives the opportunity of commenting on and responding to issues for that particular task. There has in fact been a lot of correspondence and effort within Breeze already to address many of the issues raised recently by Geraint but some slips are clearly still getting through.

My suggestion of a separate quality control stage can easily be facilitated within Breeze by introducing a column between “Doing” and “Done” called “Checking” or something similar so that when a task is finished it goes into the “Checking” column where someone else can audit it before it is transferred into the “Done” column. That “someone else” could be from the existing volunteers or, better still, from a small group of good proof readers/listeners such as Geraint, Vaughan, Stu and anyone else who has the skill and a little time. As the world’s worst proof reader/listener. I am ruling myself out.

Would you be kind enough to let me know your responses and also whether you would be prepared to join the Breeze community as a proof reader/auditor?

Diolch pawb
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby brigitte » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:22 pm

Two little things I found:
lesson 16, 22.50: Catrin says "ffilm" instead of "llyfr"
lesson 17: between 26.20 and 28.26 there is, when Catrin speaks, a hissing in the background (it's the part where "ges i amser da" is introduced )
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Re: Course 1 (new framework) teething problems

Postby hewrop » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:29 pm

Danke sehr, Brigitte. I'll start with your comments and work backwards through the others.
brigitte wrote:Two little things I found:
lesson 16, 22.50: Catrin says "ffilm" instead of "llyfr"

I did catch this one, but let it go on the basis of the policy that has gradually been agreed to allow minor slips through if they are more likely to waken people up than mislead them. :smile: Do you think that's a bad idea?
brigitte wrote:lesson 17: between 26.20 and 28.26 there is, when Catrin speaks, a hissing in the background (it's the part where "ges i amser da" is introduced )

I deliberately use a fairly basic sound card and set of earphones and windows media player when I am auditing lessons and I haven't been able to detect the hissing you refer to. Would you be kind enough to check again perhaps on another system to see if it's still there? We have already discovered that things can go wrong in the downloading process.
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