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Re: Quick accent question

Postby DaiTwp » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:57 am

MikeEllwood wrote:
What are other people's perceptions?

[Looking at Gareth King's Pocket Modern W. Dictionary reminds me of "gweud", which I think is definitely southern-only, isn't it?]


There is a tendency in parts of the south to replace a 'd' with a 'g' in its place i.e.

dweud turns to gweud. Of course this also has affects the mutated form so:

instead of ddweud you hear weud.

This is also why you'll often hear things such as "pam naG wyt ti'n mind?" in stead of pam nad wyt ti'n mind?"

Also things like nagw instead of nac ydw i.e.......nac ydw => na'dw => nagw

*Edited to sort the quote. sumsmeister, SSiW Angel :D
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Re: Quick accent question

Postby bontddu » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:19 pm

In terms of referring to gender neutral "it", as in when it refers to "the fact", is it up to the preference of the speaker whether he chooses fo or hi? Do I remember that in the north they tend to use masculine and the south chose feminine for gender-free "its", or does even "a fact" have a gender - or did I dream that? Diolch o galon.
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Re: Quick accent question

Postby Sionned » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:21 pm

As I recall, in the northern course, we have heard "he" and "she" for "it" in about equal measures. That's just a gut feeling, though - I haven't counted! I do know that things like the weather are generally called "she".
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Re: Quick accent question

Postby MikeEllwood » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:25 pm

bontddu wrote:Just written phonetically for a second, I hear mainly wade in southern and dade in northern. One of the things I really love about Welsh is the give and take in pronunciation. Sometimes you hear wade, sometimes gwade, sometimes efo other times gyda - at first this is frustrating to a learner, but when you progress a bit it's actually a really nice feature of the language.


Diolch bontddu, and I think I'm slowly beginning to identify with and be able to agree with that last bit.
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Re: Quick accent question

Postby Lurch2 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:24 am

DaiTwp wrote:
MikeEllwood wrote:
What are other people's perceptions?

[Looking at Gareth King's Pocket Modern W. Dictionary reminds me of "gweud", which I think is definitely southern-only, isn't it?]


There is a tendency in parts of the south to replace a 'd' with a 'g' in its place i.e.

dweud turns to gweud. Of course this also has affects the mutated form so:

instead of ddweud you hear weud.

This is also why you'll often hear things such as "pam naG wyt ti'n mind?" in stead of pam nad wyt ti'n mind?"

Also things like nagw instead of nac ydw i.e.......nac ydw => na'dw => nagw

*Edited to sort the quote. sumsmeister, SSiW Angel :D


I thought that the "nag wy" was just an extension of the use of "nag" ie "nac" as a - er... "Fronting negative" in some dialects? "Nag w i'n dod" and "nag yw e'n dod" and all that. Even if not, can't it be derived from "nag wy(f)" or even "nag ydwy(f)" (ie nac wy(f) or nac ydwy(f)) just as easily as from "nadw" ?

As for "Gweud", the form of "Gweud" according to the geiriadur Prifysgol comes from at least the thirteenth century- that is to say, as far as we can trace it back. John Morris Jones traces it back to an Indo European "vat" - ie, for welsh purposes "wad", which gives "gwawd" and "gwadu" (with negative) before the intensive "dy" was given to it.

Isn't it possible that "Gweud" is the original word, without the prefix?

[edit- Or "ddwed"> "wed" as rather unusual consonant cluster, with the "g" appearing as normal in front of a "w"? What I had originally (presumably incorrectly, of course!) thought.]

However, if there are other words where "d" changes to "g" in southern dialects (apart from "dweud" and "nag") that would certainly back up the idea you put forward. Is this a common change?

To say I do not speak Welsh as well as you do would be an understatement, and I hope this does not come across as argumentative! But as I do not know about these things, I would appreciate your input.

Thank you in advance for any answers!
Please feel free to correct my Welsh. My English, however, is beyond all hope.

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