Being polite? | If SSIW is helping you, why not help us? Get DAILY lessons: Become an SSIW Member!

Tell us about the fun you've had trying to use your Welsh...:-)

Re: Being polite?

Postby Tahl » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:08 pm

hewrop wrote:In relation to finding things to say to my own species, I confess I cheat. :oops: I rehearse what I want to say and then steer the conversation around so that I can say it. The result is that everyone thinks I speak brilliant Welsh. :harhar: Please don't tell any one else. :D

Huw, I never knew. :wink: :lol:

But seriously: this is a useful technique. If you 'drive' a conversation, you can more easily keep it within your abilities. Try starting off at your next gathering by asking somebody 'Can I tell you about my cat/my dog/what I did yesterday?'
Image
Currently working on: SSIW Course 3, Lesson 21 (Southern);
SSIS Course 1, Lesson 19; SSIS MFSA Tourist Spanish, Lesson 10.
User avatar
Tahl
SSiW Angel
 
Posts: 5923
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:40 am
Location: Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Real name:: Diane

Re: Being polite?

Postby RobertBruce » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:30 pm

Tahl wrote: 'Can I tell you about my cat/my dog/what I did yesterday?'


It fell down the stairs! :lol:
No one ever drowned by getting out of their depth in a Welsh conversation.

Please DO read the forum guidelines. And how about putting up a poster or two in your locality?
User avatar
RobertBruce
SSiW Angel
 
Posts: 4556
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:41 pm
Location: Sir Faesyfed
Real name:: Robert Bruce

Re: Being polite?

Postby Aran » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:33 pm

paws3 wrote:The group is almost all learners who have done formal 'lessons' for years and are much more advanced than me.


Ah, interesting. People who have done formal lessons for years can become very set in their ways, and are sometimes a bit defensive about the 'right' way to do things. If I were you, I'd go easy on them by sticking in a few chis here and there, but don't actually worry about it...:)
Loan $25 somewhere worthwhile with the SSiW Kiva team
Forum Guidelines | How far have you got with SSiW? Let us know HERE
User avatar
Aran
SSi CEO
 
Posts: 16971
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:52 pm
Real name:: Aran!

Re: Being polite?

Postby Morgs » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:23 pm

Paws - don't panic about it. I do what Huw does - practise what I'm going to say on my way to work - that sort of thing. I have been learning since Nov 2011 and I still freeze and panic like mad when a conversation comes upon me unexpectedly. You will get better and gain confidence. Please don't worry! You will find some people whom you can understand easily and some people whom you never understand - that's natural too. chin up!
User avatar
Morgs
SSiW Member
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:22 pm
Location: Castell Newydd Emlyn
Real name:: Claire

Re: Being polite?

Postby Iestyn » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:50 pm

Hi Paws!

First off, wow - well done! Lesson 19, and you're already out there using your Welsh, and getting a taste for real conversations. That is the excercise that will make you a confident Welsh speaker very very soon!

:llongyf:

About the group - well, if your on lesson 19, then you are about to hit a patch of "chi" that will have you being as polite as they like very very soon. In the meantime, use chi when you can, and ti for the rest of the time.

I'm really interested to know whether they all use ti with each other in this group. If that's the case, then I would consider it downright rude to be expected to call everyone chi, unless there was a huge age gap or status gap between me and them. I guess you'll just have to see if the attitude mellows a bit as they get used to you, and as your Welsh rapidly increases.

The best bet, though, is to try and find another group, or better still, a natural situation where you can start using your Welsh as well as this group - the wder the experience you get, the more you will come to appreciate what is "normal" and what is "a bit wierd"...

But the biggest thing is - well done. Lesson 19 is a great achievement, but getting out there and using your Welsh is the biggest achievement there is. Keep at it, and let us know how you get on!
The SSiW mantra: "Don't worry. If you say something slightly different to me, people will just think you are from a different area / village / street / family to them, or more likely not notice at all!"

"Do not fear going forward slowly; fear only to stand still." Chinese Proverb
User avatar
Iestyn
SSi CFO
 
Posts: 4374
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:33 pm
Location: Llandysul, Ceredigion
Real name:: Iestyn

Re: Being polite?

Postby paws3 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:45 am

Dear All, Thanks so much for all your comments/advice.
I was horrendously nervous about joining this group and it took a lot of courage but I thought 'why are you learning this if you aren't going to use it'

I missed last week due to lack of confidence but thanks to all your support I braved it this week.

I thought I would arrive late so I could use' chi' as the plural but there was only 1 other there when I arrived. I said 'sut dach chi?' and she said oh no, use ti please....

I think as I have been a few times now I can use ti for most of the group and I am getting to know who expects chi and who doesn't mind so much. The one exception for when addressing the native Welsh speakers who always seem to be addressed as 'chi' by the group, which is fine by me.

I also prepare phrases ahead of time but as somebody posted there isn't too much I can say about my cat as the verbs we have done so far don't really apply.
Anyway, lots of listening practise which is good, although my brain can't keep up as I recognise a work but cannot place it and my brain gets stuck trying to remember it!

Again a big Diolch for the support :star:
Paws
ps I am being strongly encouraged to do a course. In Powys there is Beginners and Foundation. Any advice on which level I should enrol? (by September I should be finished Course 1)
paws3
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Being polite?

Postby karengo » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:43 pm

ps I am being strongly encouraged to do a course. In Powys there is Beginners and Foundation. Any advice on which level I should enrol? (by September I should be finished Course 1)

Smile sweetly and tell them, "I AM doing a course."

I went through the shall-I, shan't-I about enrolling on a course around the end of course 1 too. The biggest hurdle to joining conventional classes at any non-beginner level, of course, is that you have to be able to read and write at the start. That part really isn't difficult: a few hours with the course book comparing the writing with the oral versions you know from SSiW may be all it takes, once you've got over amazement at the spellings. But reading and writing are very different skills from speaking and listening. It's quite possible for people to get really good at reading and writing, pass exams and still be nowhere near fluent in conversation, which is what SSiW excels at teaching.

The other point to consider when joining classes is that unless you find an accelerated course, you're likely to get bored very quickly, as the once-a-week format takes two years over each of the levels Mynediad (entry), Sylfaen (foundation), Canolradd (intermediate) and Uwch (higher), while SSiW will continue teaching you as quickly as you let it. Once you're on the conventional course ladder it can be difficult (psychologically) to skip a rung.

There is a social life associated with a course - lovely people, almost certainly - but hearing their mistakes will also probably not help. Also be aware that the course process can take so long that it creates a separate culture of "learners", people who never seem to make the transition from being learners to just being ordinary people in society who happen to be speaking Welsh.

You've already shown yourself to be a brave person, Paws, to come "out" with your Welsh at this stage at all. We put ourselves in a very vulnerable position, using a language when we haven't got much of it yet, and that courage is what will take you forward fastest. If I were you I would carry on with SSiW until the end of Course 3 and then see whether you'd still like to do a course, or just sit one of the exams (Canolradd or higher) at that point! By then there may also be the ouside accreditation for SSiW that has been talked about elsewhere, which will silence any doubters.
User avatar
karengo
SSiW Member
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:03 pm
Location: Dolgellau
Real name:: Karen

Re: Being polite?

Postby paws3 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:59 pm

Thanks Karengo,
I know what you mean, I did a Spanish evening class years ago which really frustrated me at the snail-like speed (I eventually bought Rosetta Stone which I got on well with, but they don't do one in Welsh).

I agree I am really not so interested in writing and reading and I love the instant gratification that SSiW gives you when I say something correctly!
Diolch for your input,
Paws
paws3
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:31 pm

Re: Being polite?

Postby RobertBruce » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:17 pm

karengo wrote:Also be aware that the course process can take so long that it creates a separate culture of "learners", people who never seem to make the transition from being learners to just being ordinary people in society who happen to be speaking Welsh.


This.

I'm also in Powys, and I have always been concerned at how traditional courses tend to institutionalise people into being 'lifelong learners'. In an area with a (sometimes small) minority of Welsh speakers it's all too easy to fall into the trap of only using your Welsh in class, or with other learners, or as an occasional 'diolch' in a shop. SSIW gets you, as quickly as you want, to the point where you can continue to learn out in the wild, in the Welsh-speaking community.

Who is it that's encouraging you to enroll? You don't have to do anything about it yet - you can still enroll next September and see how you think you're progressing by then, but my guess is that you will want to avoid Entry, and the fact that you have come so far in so little time will make you wonder if you'll have outgrown Foundation by the end of the first term. What, then, would be the point?

My hope is that the time will come soon when the various Welsh for Adults centres start to realise that their rôle needs to change - they need to push accelerated self-learning courses such as SSIW and use their classroom time for reinforcement and troubleshooting of what people are learning outside. That way people can learn at their own pace, maybe switch between classes as required, and still get the support of tutors who are physically present.
No one ever drowned by getting out of their depth in a Welsh conversation.

Please DO read the forum guidelines. And how about putting up a poster or two in your locality?
User avatar
RobertBruce
SSiW Angel
 
Posts: 4556
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:41 pm
Location: Sir Faesyfed
Real name:: Robert Bruce

Re: Being polite?

Postby Sionned » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:42 pm

paws3 wrote:(I eventually bought Rosetta Stone which I got on well with, but they don't do one in Welsh)

Actually, they do (I have it). Rosetta Stone is good particularly with giving you specific vocabulary, but I have found SSiW to be much more effective for me in getting me actually making sentences and conversation.
Please do read the forum guidelines - they're very short!
And let me know where you live, and I'll put you on the map!
User avatar
Sionned
SSiW Angel
 
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:56 pm
Location: Missouri, USA





 


PreviousNext

Return to Welsh Encounters of the Nervous Kind

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron