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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby Atomic Newt » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:19 pm

Fabulous encouraging shares!! Thank you!! I'm reminded that when on bootcamp and we were unleashed on the unsuspecting locals, more than a few gave that great big smile and "da iawn chi!" when they heard we were learning...very encouraging!!

Just wanted to throw my own two cents in regarding the North/South thing. I can't speak from a whole lot of experience since I've not traveled around Wales extensively! But just from my own Bootcamp experience, what I've picked up from tv, books, radio, and from the stories I hear of other peoples travels, it seems that the North/South difference becomes more of a difference between learners. For example at Bootcamp, I'd studied the South course, but virtually everyone there studied the North course...led to a few head scratching moments on both of our parts (and a few more advanced learners were able to come to the rescue in those situations!) BUT I think a native speaker of the language, even if they were more likely to use certain vocab/constructions particular to their own area would of course still know the "other way" of saying it. They might still use their construction, but they would understand you!

Anyone with more authority care to comment?? :D
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby alan52273 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:08 pm

As a really new Welsh learner (Dw I 'n hoffi trio siarad Cymraeg!!... a lot!! Haha) I am impressed with the close knit community here. My dad always told me that we were Irish, which was ok. But we have traced our geneology and found that we are Welsh. The region we live in (did I mention I am American?) Was historically settled by Welshman. So I started researching Wales as a country, then as a culture, then as an identity. Wow!! Anyway I started to learn a few easy phrases, then found SSIW. Kudos! I perused the norhern course while learning the southern course and found the differences to be along the same lines as the north and south dialect here. Howdy or Hey y'all here in the south, while hello is still prevalent elsewhere. There's more but ithink the meaning would be lost in translation. Well I tend to be longwinded, so hawl fawr and my next post might be in all Welsh. Prynhawn da!
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby dinas » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:39 pm

Hi, Alan!.....Whatever happened to, Atomic Newt?
"Two windows on the world are better than one...." Helena Jones

Yes I hear it!... Hiraeth - the link with the long-forgotten past, the language of the soul, the call from the inner self. Half forgotten - fraction remembered. It speaks from the rocks, from the earth, from the trees and in the waves. It's always there.
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby Treiglad Llaes » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:01 pm

alan52273 wrote:I perused the norhern course while learning the southern course

I'm doing the northern course, but I recently started doing both sets of practice sessions: the sentences aren't the same between the two, which I hadn't realised before. It's also become one of my favourite things to do, because I think (although this could be an illusion) that my pronunciation is better when I'm doing the southern version. I don't know why this should be; maybe since my pronunciation strategy is basically "copy Catrin as best I can", hearing a different accent (and not directly hearing my "model") makes me concentrate specifically on pronunciation more?
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby henddraig » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:43 am

Diolch yn fawr iawn!!!! Probably my health will not let me return to Wales anyway, but it is very good to know that my odd mix of dialects will not matter if I do!! I have found that I speak mainly South, but with a Northern accent!! When I am sorry, I naturally say, "Mae ddrwg gen i." I'm not sure where that is from. I pronouce 'llaeth' and 'mae' like the English 'my'. I say 'gweithio' as 'gweethio', but 'nei' as 'nai'. I am just mixed up, I guess, from travelling and from spending my entire working life in England! I now live in Scotland and am using SSIW to try to understand more of S4C, to help with the hiraeth!!!
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby MikeEllwood » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:33 am

This is a great thread that has helped to partially answer a question I just posted elswhere, namely where to go to hear Welsh spoken naturally.


I'm still a bit worried about the reaction I will get as a fairly obvious Englishman trying to learn Welsh. Will they question my motives? It seems 100% natural for a Welsh person to reconnect with the language of their ancestors, but a little less obvious for someone of the country whose language has helped to drive out Welsh.

I'm not saying people actively think like that much nowadays, and hopefully all of us learners are in the same boat wherever we come from. But it's a subconscious worry, nevertheless.


However, as I'm only on lesson 2 of course 1, it will be some months before I probably have to worry about this in practice! :-)
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby Tahl » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:34 am

MikeEllwood wrote:I'm still a bit worried about the reaction I will get as a fairly obvious Englishman trying to learn Welsh. Will they question my motives? It seems 100% natural for a Welsh person to reconnect with the language of their ancestors, but a little less obvious for someone of the country whose language has helped to drive out Welsh.

I'm not saying people actively think like that much nowadays, and hopefully all of us learners are in the same boat wherever we come from. But it's a subconscious worry, nevertheless.

Yes, people are startled when someone with an English/Australian/American/German/Finnish accent starts speaking good colloquial Welsh, and shocked once they find out that you're not actually living in Wales. But from what I've seen and heard about, your English accent is much more likely to be received with warmth than with resentment. You're putting effort into trying to show respect for the culture.

You'll get asked 'But why are you learning Welsh?' more than someone with a Welsh accent, true. Some variant on what Tolkien said will carry you far: "Welsh is of this soil, this island, the senior language of the men of Britain; and Welsh is beautiful." :D

MikeEllwood wrote:However, as I'm only on lesson 2 of course 1, it will be some months before I probably have to worry about this in practice! :-)

That's what you think now. One effect of a spoken course is that people get eager very early on to see if they can be understood! :D
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby dinas » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:56 pm

I was at Aylesfords Carmelite Priory in Kent yesterday when I heard a welsh accent: It belonged to this lovely lady, in her eighties; originally from Ynys Môn. Chatting to her for half an hour I laughed when she told me: "I've never heard anyone speak welsh with a London accent..." Giving me a big hug as we parted. I've now resolved to keep my accent as is. :D
She also told me that her late mother couldn't speak English at all.
"Two windows on the world are better than one...." Helena Jones

Yes I hear it!... Hiraeth - the link with the long-forgotten past, the language of the soul, the call from the inner self. Half forgotten - fraction remembered. It speaks from the rocks, from the earth, from the trees and in the waves. It's always there.
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby RobertBruce » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:03 pm

dinas wrote:I've now resolved to keep my accent as is. :D


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
No one ever drowned by getting out of their depth in a Welsh conversation.

Please DO read the forum guidelines. And how about putting up a poster or two in your locality?
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Re: North v South - 'sdim ots

Postby Tahl » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:06 pm

Hey, Rob, I just looked back into this thread . . . and found this post that you wrote four years ago today! Nice to see how far you (and the rest of us) have come since then, eh? :cool:
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